Comments on: The 4 Turnings http://www.challengemsc.com/2007/08/29/the-4-turnings/ Home of Christian Challenge @ Mesa State College Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:13:52 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Darrin http://www.challengemsc.com/2007/08/29/the-4-turnings/comment-page-1/#comment-481 Darrin Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:06:15 +0000 http://www.challengemsc.com/2007/08/29/the-4-turnings/#comment-481 Neat addition to this conversation, Nick. Somewhat historical. As I type this I am listening to The Maker by Daniel Lanois - adds to the moment. Tonight at movieology (very well led by Garrett, by the way), we actually chased the same thinking when Garrett used Jason Bourne to illustrate a "turning away/turning toward." We dialogued a bit with Kevin's entry as a focal point. I shared how important it was for me as a young guy (really historical, now) to move away from destination thinking to journey-think. I turned away from setting goals related to jobs, incomes, who to marry etc..., and went more to themes or principles (knowing, loving and glorifying God, raising up qualified laborers, etc...). I think the turn was from getting it right to simply being it right. I think it is Lordship. Maybe this is all just my excuse for still not making any money! Neat addition to this conversation, Nick. Somewhat historical. As I type this I am listening to The Maker by Daniel Lanois – adds to the moment. Tonight at movieology (very well led by Garrett, by the way), we actually chased the same thinking when Garrett used Jason Bourne to illustrate a “turning away/turning toward.” We dialogued a bit with Kevin’s entry as a focal point. I shared how important it was for me as a young guy (really historical, now) to move away from destination thinking to journey-think. I turned away from setting goals related to jobs, incomes, who to marry etc…, and went more to themes or principles (knowing, loving and glorifying God, raising up qualified laborers, etc…). I think the turn was from getting it right to simply being it right. I think it is Lordship. Maybe this is all just my excuse for still not making any money!

]]> By: Nick http://www.challengemsc.com/2007/08/29/the-4-turnings/comment-page-1/#comment-479 Nick Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:15:47 +0000 http://www.challengemsc.com/2007/08/29/the-4-turnings/#comment-479 Yes, I've seen #4 happen before #1, which is why the word <em>back</em> should be removed from #4. In fact, that's always how I've thought it happened for me. I can remember being really inspired in church back in high school to go out and change the world by doing good and even to talk with people about Jesus, and then being really sad when the guy preaching said I had to be a baptized, church going Christian first. When I first started hanging at Challenge, there were 6 of us and we knew we had to do something or die, and I was all about it even though I hadn't turned to Christ yet. It only took about a semester of #4 to convince me I needed help, and #1 was a good idea. But I'm odd . . . This list does remind me of some things Jesus used to say to the Pharisees though, like <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%205:39&version=51" title="Bible Gateway" rel="nofollow">John 5:39,</a> when He said <em>You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!</em> and <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=23&verse=15&version=51&context=verse" title="Bible Gateway" rel="nofollow">Matthew 23:15,</a> <em>What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!</em> Darrin's right, Lordship is still the key issue, because if you miss Jesus, you've missed the whole point, and it’s entirely possible to settle for #2-4. The Pharisees did. But Kevin/Alex make a good point. We eliminate a lot of authentic turnings towards God when the only option we hold out to people is #1. This reminds me of my old conversations with D about pre-Christian discipleship, and Mike Frost’s stuff on inviting people into spiritual rhythms that will walk them towards God, things like service and meditation/openness to God. With that in mind, Jake might be more effective in the dorms if, in addition to the scriptures and the gathering, he could offer people some ways to serve the dorm they’re in and make it a better place (#4). Of course, Jake’s natural effervescence is almost enough to do that on its own. Cool new look for the site, by the way. Yes, I’ve seen #4 happen before #1, which is why the word back should be removed from #4. In fact, that’s always how I’ve thought it happened for me. I can remember being really inspired in church back in high school to go out and change the world by doing good and even to talk with people about Jesus, and then being really sad when the guy preaching said I had to be a baptized, church going Christian first. When I first started hanging at Challenge, there were 6 of us and we knew we had to do something or die, and I was all about it even though I hadn’t turned to Christ yet. It only took about a semester of #4 to convince me I needed help, and #1 was a good idea. But I’m odd . . .

This list does remind me of some things Jesus used to say to the Pharisees though, like John 5:39, when He said You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! and Matthew 23:15, What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! Darrin’s right, Lordship is still the key issue, because if you miss Jesus, you’ve missed the whole point, and it’s entirely possible to settle for #2-4. The Pharisees did.

But Kevin/Alex make a good point. We eliminate a lot of authentic turnings towards God when the only option we hold out to people is #1. This reminds me of my old conversations with D about pre-Christian discipleship, and Mike Frost’s stuff on inviting people into spiritual rhythms that will walk them towards God, things like service and meditation/openness to God. With that in mind, Jake might be more effective in the dorms if, in addition to the scriptures and the gathering, he could offer people some ways to serve the dorm they’re in and make it a better place (#4). Of course, Jake’s natural effervescence is almost enough to do that on its own.

Cool new look for the site, by the way.

]]> By: Darrin http://www.challengemsc.com/2007/08/29/the-4-turnings/comment-page-1/#comment-478 Darrin Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:43:46 +0000 http://www.challengemsc.com/2007/08/29/the-4-turnings/#comment-478 It seems like Erwin has argued in the past that all these "turnings" are at least encouraged to happen at the beginning. I like the idea that there are things to which we need to awaken, or to encourage an awakening in others. I personally think that if a turning to holiness is not a separate issue, then Lordship is probably our biggest need. It seems like Erwin has argued in the past that all these “turnings” are at least encouraged to happen at the beginning. I like the idea that there are things to which we need to awaken, or to encourage an awakening in others. I personally think that if a turning to holiness is not a separate issue, then Lordship is probably our biggest need.

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